"Free" Coaching

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ashley Logsdon on January 8, 2010 at 2:43pm

Evan,
Remember that God commands us to be good stewards of our money. You are offering your time and expertise to give participants an exceptional class--one that gives them many of the tools they would get with a personal coach. As a personal coach, tell him what your rate is. Let your pastor know that you are looking at this as ministry--which is why you are offering it at a lower price than your coaching--you want the opportunity to share your expertise with a larger group in a class setting. Explain to your pastor about what we are saying in this blog--that when people invest in something, they tend to get more out of it.

And lastly, remember that sometimes compassion isn't just throwing out freebies. Sometimes it's best shown by setting the expectation high that they can stand on their own two feet. Remember, "give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime." You are asking people to come, invest their time and money to something that will equip them to fish on their own--not just a suggestion on where to go with their life.

Evan Newman said:

Dan,

I just got back from an appointment with a local church pastor about facilitating a "48 Days" workshop. Of course, he asked how much it would cost. He brushed past the benefits of the program that I listed and my own testimony of how "48 Days to the Work You Love" changed my life, and went right to the "too high of a price".

Now, his argument does tug at my heart when he describes the "unemployed and discouraged" that can't afford the workshop fee. I have compassion too! I get it!

But how do I respectfully answer him? My fees are not extraordinary. As a matter of fact, they are right in line with what other facilitators are charging every day. I owe him a response but I don't want to come across as callous or lacking compassion.

I'd love your feedback!

Thanks,

Evan

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Permalink Reply by Rob Orr on January 8, 2010 at 4:50pm

I may be way off base here, but I think that what's being discussed isn't the value of services rendered, it's about giving and serving. I understand "value" arguments as good as anyone, but I'll never be convinced that you're helping someone by maintaining your "value proposition" when there is someone who is in need who could really use the help you can offer. That doesn't sound like service to me and you're not helping anyone by maintaining your rate/price etc. It's either a gift, or it's a paid for service. I don't mean to offend, but it just sounds like greed. Don't make the mistake of assuming I think that you should give away your products/services constantly, because that's not the case. I also don't think that as far as coaching goes that this would be a model by which to build your business, but I don't think that the goodwill that is extended would go unnoticed by our Father above. Don't forget that we are to be storing up for ourselves "treasures in heaven" (Matt 6:20).

Business is business, giving is giving. If you can give from your business, I would say that you should definitely do so, but don't look at it like a business transaction because that's not what it is.

And let those of us who have enjoyed some success in life not forget where we come from. Life happens to everyone. Sometimes it's just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and/or making a bad decision. Who really knows the outcome before the decision is made? Just because someone is down does not mean that they're out.

I hope what I've said here isn't offensive, I certainly don't mean it to be that way. I've got strong feelings about this, and I'm not entirely sure why.

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Permalink Reply by Archie Winningham on January 8, 2010 at 5:12pm

Rob, You are a great exampe of why I love this community so. You just put a spiritual but practical approach to this discussion. Great point made. Thanks. However, I still say that if folks are able to pay, it really does add more value and appreciation to their training. Maybe this is over my head, but I just know that "most" folks that were "gifted" their Financial Peace kits really didn't care if they came to class or not. Also, I should point out that Financial Peace University Coordinators are strictly volunteers. The pay we receive is that satisfaction of knowing we have helped someone change their financial situation for the better.

Great discussion.

Rob Orr said:

I think that what's being discussed here isn't the value of services rendered, it's about giving and serving. I understand "value" arguments as good as anyone, but I'll never be convinced that you're helping someone by maintaining your "value proposition" when there is someone who is in need who could really use the help you can offer. That doesn't sound like service to me and you're not helping anyone by maintaining your rate/price etc. It's either a gift, or it's a paid for service. I don't mean to offend, but it just sounds like greed. Don't make the mistake of assuming I think that you should give away your products/services constantly, because that's not the case. I also don't think that as far as coaching goes that this would be a model by which to build your business, but I don't think that the goodwill that is extended would go unnoticed by our Father above.

Business is business, giving is giving. If you can give from your business, I would say that you should definitely do so, but don't look at it like a business transaction because that's not what it is. I've got strong feelings about this, and I'm not entirely sure why.

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Permalink Reply by Rob Orr on January 8, 2010 at 6:13pm

Thanks Archie - I TOTALLY agree with you about those who can pay should - by all means! We bought our FPU kit when we were flat broke and we were one of the few families that made it to the vast majority of classes (we only missed one). I also totally agree that paying your way can help add value for yourself to the endeavor.

For me - the biggest impact of FPU was the lesson on giving where they showed the family that had been the recipient of an incredible blessing that enabled them to adopt - I will never forget that as long as I live. That's the kind of giving spirit that moves my heart - helping people when they really need it.

Archie Winningham said:

Rob, You are a great exampe of why I love this community so. You just put a spiritual but practical approach to this discussion. Great point made. Thanks. However, I still say that if folks are able to pay, it really does add more value and appreciation to their training. Maybe this is over my head, but I just know that "most" folks that were "gifted" their Financial Peace kits really didn't care if they came to class or not. Also, I should point out that Financial Peace University Coordinators are strictly volunteers. The pay we receive is that satisfaction of knowing we have helped someone change their financial situation for the better.

Great discussion.

Rob Orr said:

I think that what's being discussed here isn't the value of services rendered, it's about giving and serving. I understand "value" arguments as good as anyone, but I'll never be convinced that you're helping someone by maintaining your "value proposition" when there is someone who is in need who could really use the help you can offer. That doesn't sound like service to me and you're not helping anyone by maintaining your rate/price etc. It's either a gift, or it's a paid for service. I don't mean to offend, but it just sounds like greed. Don't make the mistake of assuming I think that you should give away your products/services constantly, because that's not the case. I also don't think that as far as coaching goes that this would be a model by which to build your business, but I don't think that the goodwill that is extended would go unnoticed by our Father above.

Business is business, giving is giving. If you can give from your business, I would say that you should definitely do so, but don't look at it like a business transaction because that's not what it is. I've got strong feelings about this, and I'm not entirely sure why.

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Permalink Reply by Ashley Logsdon on January 11, 2010 at 8:36am

I definitely agree with you, Rob, that you should give freely--and when we do give--coaching, product, etc., it is done with no strings attached. I think we're addressing two situations here--this issue of "free coaching" is in direct reference to the people asking for a hand-out, not necessarily a hand up. I tend to find that the people who genuinely need a hand up are the ones who don't ask for a freebie but are already thinking about how they can "pay back" their gratitude, by another service, later payments, etc. Like you said, business is business, and giving is giving. When I get an email from a customer with a long story about how their life is awful, and then they ask for free coaching from Dave at 48 Hours, I know they have no clue who we are. They haven't invested anything--not gotten involved, read or listened to all our free resources, or even taken the time to get the name of our company and the author correct. That tells me they aren't going to invest in any free coaching we give them, either. I'm looking at it from a business perspective and see no deposits in effort to change, so I am not going to let them just withdraw our time and energy for nothing.

On the flip side, when we see a person that is truly trying, that shows us their effort by grabbing at all of our free resources first, that shows me they're eager and willing to learn in whatever way possible, but just need some help, we are happy to serve them. We give products freely to organizations and people that can use them. Dad schedules lunch appointments almost daily with people who really need a hand-up that don't have the money to do a full coaching session, or just need a little advice.

In our business, giving is another way to tithe. We don't underestimate the value of freely offering someone that step up to a better life, and we don't hesitate to give back in whatever ways we can. But the focus of this article is to deal with the plethora of cases...unfortunately what we see are many, many "ministry" cases--where people expect if we are Christians that we will offer things up for free b/c they are a brother in Christ. We get referrals from pastors that pass on difficult cases to us to handle for free, and we have to evaluate how much of this truly is "ministry," since if they aren't invested, we aren't truly helping them anyway.

The goal here is not to create a black and white statement that you don't give away free coaching. But it is to help you look at being a good steward of your time and money--knowing that there will always be people out there needing free advice, and you need to pick and choose those that will truly gain something from it. We all know that you can't pour blessings on others when our own cup has run out, so monitor your business--know the value in it and work with those who are willing to invest. And as your cup overflows with business success, you can better discern which cases you will take on where you can freely give back.

Make sense?

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Permalink Reply by Archie Winningham on January 11, 2010 at 8:49am

Well said Ashley. Sounds like you guys have adopted a very similar approach that Dave and his team have adopted. That's a good one too. I have worked around 5 - 6 of Dave's live events and folks just don't realize how many products Dave allows to be given away to folks that are truly in need. They too have a policy in place to be able to do that. When I worked the events for him, I was in awe of the given Dave and his team does.

Another way I look at this ministry is; people will walk into Lifeway Christian Bookstore and have no problem with paying for a product that is going to make a positive difference in theirs or someone elses life. What is the difference in paying for those products and paying for 48 Days or Dave Ramsey's products?

Again, Rob does have relivant points. That is what makes this community such a great place to hang out!

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Permalink Reply by Rob Orr on January 11, 2010 at 11:46am

Well said, Ashley - I don't think there is anything you said that I would disagree with. I just was wanting to make the point that sometimes, valuable people (valuable to the marketplace) find themselves in really bad situations for "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" or having made a decision that ended up being the wrong choice. And sometimes it really does happen that way. I personally know of a person who spent 10 years in prison, and landed in absolutely the perfect place for themselves, and is thriving, while others that are far more talented are enduring a great deal of suffering. Sometimes that's just the way things happen.

Ashley Logsdon said:

I definitely agree with you, Rob, that you should give freely--and when we do give--coaching, product, etc., it is done with no strings attached. I think we're addressing two situations here--this issue of "free coaching" is in direct reference to the people asking for a hand-out, not necessarily a hand up. I tend to find that the people who genuinely need a hand up are the ones who don't ask for a freebie but are already thinking about how they can "pay back" their gratitude, by another service, later payments, etc. Like you said, business is business, and giving is giving. When I get an email from a customer with a long story about how their life is awful, and then they ask for free coaching from Dave at 48 Hours, I know they have no clue who we are. They haven't invested anything--not gotten involved, read or listened to all our free resources, or even taken the time to get the name of our company and the author correct. That tells me they aren't going to invest in any free coaching we give them, either. I'm looking at it from a business perspective and see no deposits in effort to change, so I am not going to let them just withdraw our time and energy for nothing.

On the flip side, when we see a person that is truly trying, that shows us their effort by grabbing at all of our free resources first, that shows me they're eager and willing to learn in whatever way possible, but just need some help, we are happy to serve them. We give products freely to organizations and people that can use them. Dad schedules lunch appointments almost daily with people who really need a hand-up that don't have the money to do a full coaching session, or just need a little advice.

In our business, giving is another way to tithe. We don't underestimate the value of freely offering someone that step up to a better life, and we don't hesitate to give back in whatever ways we can. But the focus of this article is to deal with the plethora of cases...unfortunately what we see are many, many "ministry" cases--where people expect if we are Christians that we will offer things up for free b/c they are a brother in Christ. We get referrals from pastors that pass on difficult cases to us to handle for free, and we have to evaluate how much of this truly is "ministry," since if they aren't invested, we aren't truly helping them anyway.

The goal here is not to create a black and white statement that you don't give away free coaching. But it is to help you look at being a good steward of your time and money--knowing that there will always be people out there needing free advice, and you need to pick and choose those that will truly gain something from it. We all know that you can't pour blessings on others when our own cup has run out, so monitor your business--know the value in it and work with those who are willing to invest. And as your cup overflows with business success, you can better discern which cases you will take on where you can freely give back.

Make sense?

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Dominy on January 14, 2010 at 11:21pm

Rob,
Valid point there should be an opportunity to work with the Social Services (just an idea). Being a social worker for 5 years there were countless times that people had no food, no one to help, no family, etc. and they were so appreciative of the assistance it brought them to tears. The most moving moment was giving homeless man a certificate for a new pair of glasses. He cried when I gave it to him and he came back to show me his new glasses with tears in his eyes and told me how much he appreciated the gift. He acted like he had just won the lottery, 1 certificate to get a pair of glasses. You never know how many people will benefit from this program. If they do not appreciate it, that's ok.
lilew

Rob Orr said:

Just a question on this - how do you determine who you coach for free? Do you not think that those who couldn't at present pay you for the coaching would not be able to make good use of it and potentially turn their life around? I'm all about "value" and getting paid for the work you do, it just seems to me that sometimes we get caught up in value, and maybe serving goes by the wayside for a moment. Sometimes it would seem that someone might need a hand up - not a hand-out. I'm working on a plan where I am going to give away my some aspect of my services in some way completely free just to give and help out those who could really use it, because I know what it's like to be caught between a rock and a hard place with few to no hands to help. I haven't solidified the details yet, but it's something I really want to do to give.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Dominy on January 14, 2010 at 11:41pm

What about doing it to serve your community? Or for people who have lost their jobs and have nothing to pay? I know I would appreciate anyone who would help me out and make sure I wrote an extraordinary testimonial. In the past 3 years, my life has gone from making over $100,000 a year to having to make the decision to pull the plug on life support for my father, losing a baby and my job. I have not worked at a job in almost 2 years. I appreciate you Dan because you have changed my life and I am only on chapter 7 in the book. I would give you a testimonial right now and I received my treasured package as a gift.
lilew

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Dominy on January 14, 2010 at 11:44pm

My sentiments, exactly.
Thank you, Bill.
I appreciate your post.
lilew

Bill Mayhugh said:

Great & Blessed 2010 to you Dan! Yes, it is a bit of a paradox for folks who seem to be in most need of coaching or counseling, or both, to be put into some dire circumstance as many have been in the last 2 years, or, by their own lifestyle and choices, have put themselves - and many times - their families, too, in dire straights - are the folks who need coaching the most - yet want to pay nothing for the service.

Yet, sadly, my experience over the last 15 years, particularly for financial coaching (see Dave Ramsey, et al.) these same people will have spent tens of thousands of dollars on credit cards, overgrown toys, bells and whistles, and won't spend 1 dime to help get themselves out of debt. The same for Real Estate sales, searching for new career skills & coaching, etc.

One thing I have done to serve some of these folks who DO need help, and who WILL participate and ARE appreciative, is set-up internally for myselff what I call 'Angel Cases'.

Perhaps the following will help Rob, Arthur, and others; as to how you set your business up from the get go. Be sure you treat yourself- your most precious asset- as a business asset. Not as a Pinada to be hit for free at parties!

IF, someone is referred to me by a trusted, strategic partner, I MAY agree to review that person's case with them personally. First they need to tell me their WHOLE story. I determine if they are in need of coaching or professional counseling. If they need of professional counseling, I refer them to well qualified, licensed folks whom I either personally know, or, are properly referred to me. Next, I set strong ground rules, a maximum timetable that I will assist them, and one (1) assignment to help themselves get started. No completed assignment, no truthfulness, etc. The 'Angel' is gone.

I have set myself to reviiw one Angel Case per month - MAX.
I still fulfill 'pro-bono' help that way, and my referring partners also know the boundaries before hand. In writing..

Unfortunately, the sadest and 'worst' cases of constant referrals for 'Free' coaching, 'reduced' fees, even 'free' materials, even in Real Estate as Sidney stated ( the 'Christian RE Discount' a fellow RE Broker friend of mine calls it) all seem to ' come from churches and faith-based groups. The very people we are set out to help in the Great Commission are the largest source of consistent requests for free time, talent, and materials based on my being a Christian, even before I find out the specifics of the people being referred and how they got that way.

If you set your business up from day one as a 'business', and truly try to live in 'God's Economy' and not by what any man dictates to you, it is amazing how just this small mental adjustment may save you a lot of heartburn.

From the outset, if, I agree to an Angel Case, both the client, the referring partner, and my own internal, mental clock handles everything a bit differently and with much more peace. If any coaching client does not fit my internal 'regulator', I don't take on the engagement, the coaching client, etc. I referr it out or turn it down flat.

Col 3:15: Let the Peace of Christ RULE in your heart!' NO peace about it, I refer them to an agency that perhaps can and will help them.

But, remember what Dan says here. Even with an Angel Case Mentality. do NOT expect any future paying referrals from any of these folks even when they do get back on their feet. That's OK if you know that at the beginning.

It is the 'expectation' of being paid for your skills and services, and then, NOT getting paid, that sets us up for the disappointment.

I hope this will help someone.

Be Blessed in 2010!

Bill
Psm 90:17. Jos 1:9

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Permalink Reply by Mike Deguzman on March 29, 2010 at 5:48am

I learned my lesson on this the hard way. I offered a lot of coaching for free but have found that those who make the investment are those who'll work hard to make changes. I spoke with a friend about this and he said, "The people who say they can't afford it are going to leave your seminar, go to Wal-mart and spend $100 on stuff they don't need."

I hold 6 week marriage seminars for couples and charge $105 per couple. I feel like this is very reasonable and still find couples who say they need it but can't afford it. At first, I decided that I would simply "scholarship" them. After 4 seminars and 28 couples later, the ONLY couples that missed a session were the ones that were given scholarships. So, I began offering half scholarships. This worked better but still had couples miss who were given the half scholarships. This last round of seminars I've done I had a few couples who needed scholarships. I simply told them the story about those who missed sessions and those who didn't. I then said, "I'll give you a half-scholarship and any session that either you or your spouse miss, will be $20 each." Not one couple has missed with this new plan.

I'm not necessarily looking for great testimonials, I simply want to help marriages. This seems to be a plan that's working for me. Any ideas?

Press On!
Mike

www.centerforbiblicalcoaching.com

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Permalink Reply by Raun Lauterbach on March 29, 2010 at 4:59pm

Mike,

I think you make an interesting point in this statement:

"I'm not necessarily looking for great testimonials, I simply want to help marriages."

The phrasing of this statement makes a distiction between genuinely wanting to help people and betting your time/ talents in the hopes of "winning" a testimonial or a paying customer. Granted getting a testimonial or a customer is a great thing for business, I think when you are deciding whether or not to do pro bono work, you need to determine where you heart is. It may even be more important for you as the coach/leader/supplier/whatever to spiritually frame the situation before deciding whether or not they would "run with it" and get real value from your offering.

Just a thought...

Raun

Mike Deguzman said:

I learned my lesson on this the hard way. I offered a lot of coaching for free but have found that those who make the investment are those who'll work hard to make changes. I spoke with a friend about this and he said, "The people who say they can't afford it are going to leave your seminar, go to Wal-mart and spend $100 on stuff they don't need."

I hold 6 week marriage seminars for couples and charge $105 per couple. I feel like this is very reasonable and still find couples who say they need it but can't afford it. At first, I decided that I would simply "scholarship" them. After 4 seminars and 28 couples later, the ONLY couples that missed a session were the ones that were given scholarships. So, I began offering half scholarships. This worked better but still had couples miss who were given the half scholarships. This last round of seminars I've done I had a few couples who needed scholarships. I simply told them the story about those who missed sessions and those who didn't. I then said, "I'll give you a half-scholarship and any session that either you or your spouse miss, will be $20 each." Not one couple has missed with this new plan.

I'm not necessarily looking for great testimonials, I simply want to help marriages. This seems to be a plan that's working for me. Any ideas?

Press On!
Mike

www.centerforbiblicalcoaching.com

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